New York, NY, January 2, 2019.


Q. Sir Ruggero M. Santilli (hereinafter referred to as "Dr. Santilli"), please identify in a language accessible to the general audience the biggest problem that has prevented the achievement to date of controlled nuclear fusions despite efforts done for about three quarters of a century and the investment of billions of dollars of public funds.

A. As it is well known, all nuclei are positively charged. Therefore they repel each other according to the Coulomb law with a force inversely proportional to the square of the distance. In order to achieve a nuclear fusion, it is necessary to activate the strongly attractive nuclear forces and this is only possible for mutual distances of the order of 1 Fermi given by 10- 15 cm. Consequently, nuclear fusions must overcome an enormous repulsive Coulomb force illustrated in Figure 1. It should be indicated that low energy nuclear fusions do exist, although it has not been possible to achieve them to date in a controlled industrial form. Similarly, high energy nuclear fusions also exist, although the additional energy created by the nuclear fusions themselves creates such instabilities to prevent their control via the use of 20th century sciences and technologies.

FIGURE 1: In this figure, we illustrate the primary reason for the lack of achievement of the controlled nuclear fusions at low and high energies in about seventy-five years and billions of dollars of public funds. The primary obstacle is given by the fact that nuclei experience a repulsive Coulomb force due to their positive charges, which force becomes incredibly big at the value of mutual distances necessary to achieve a nuclear fusion.

Q. Dr. Santilli, please indicate the principle of the new clean nuclear energies you are developing at the U. S. publicly traded company Thunder Energies Corporation in your capacity as Chief Scientist of the company.

A. The most effective way to achieve new, clean, nuclear energies is by creating new negatively charged strongly interacting particles as well as nuclei, because they would not only eliminate the indicated Coulomb repulsion, but actually turn it into a very big Coulomb attraction. (Illustrated in Figure 2.)

FIGURE 2: In this figure, we illustrate the principle of "Santilli's controlled nuclear fusions," first proposed for development in Ref. [1] (which is based on the creation below), of "negatively charged" strongly interacting particles or nuclei that are synthesized via a technology developed by the U. S. Publicly traded company Thunder Energies Corporation. The fusions are controlled via the initiation or disconnection of the irradiation, the flux and energy of the irradiating particles and other means.

Q. Did you succeed in synthesizing "negatively charged" strongly interacting particles or nuclei?

A. Yes. Following decades of studies, the recently published paper [1] presents experimental evidence by two U. S. spectroscopic laboratories supporting the achievement at Thunder Energies Corporation of "protons with negative charge" that I have called pseudoprotons, while we are now working at synthesizing negatively charged deuterons that I have called pseudodeuterons.

Q. What type of new energies can be produced with pseudoprotons and pseudodeuterons?

A. Under mathematical and physical laws of the generalization of quantum mechanics known as hadronic mechanics (see the 1978 Refs. [2] for the initiation of the new discipline, the 1996 systematic presentatation [3], the recent general review [4], and the independent review [5]), pseudoproton irradiation of a selected number of light, natural, and stable elements produces their transmutation into light, natural, and stable elements with a smaller atomic number, while pseudodeuteron irradiations of other selected natural elements produce nuclear fusions. In both cases, we have the release of thermal energy without the emission of neutrons or other harmful radiations and without the release of radioactive waste (see Section 3 of Ref. [1] for specific nuclear reactions).

FIGURE 3 The first and most fundamental synthesis of particles achieved by Dr. Santilli in forty years of mathematical, physical and experimental research (see Refs. [2-4,7] and independent review [5]) has been the synthesis of the neutron via Rutherford's historical "compression" of the electron within the hyperdense proton [6]. Such a synthesis is impossible for quantum mechanics due to its representation of particles as well as nuclei as being point-like. Dr. Santilli was, therefore, forced to develop new mathematical and physical laws for the representation off particles in their actual size and density, today known under the name of "hadronic mechanics" (see Vol. II of Ref. [2], page 112 for the first appearance of these terms).

Q. Have you actually achieved the production of new clean nuclear energies with the indicated principle?

A. No. Allow me to warn readers against the expectation of quickly achieving new nuclear plants particularly in the absence of large funds that can only be provided by Federal agencies. Our main point is that, following the inability you indicated to achieve new nuclear energies over three quarter of a century and the investment of billions of dollars of public funds, it is time to initiate basically novel research "out of the box," while old research l should evidently be continued.

Q. Have you received any governmental funds for the research?

A. Yes. I initiated the basic research in the field in the late 1970's when I was at Harvard University under financial support by the Department of Energy (see Refs. [2]). In order to develop industrial applications, I continued the research within corporate environments under private financial support. In particular, I am pleased to indicate that Thunder Energies Corporation received funds from the New York based investment firm Power Up and more recently, by the New York based GHS investment firm.

Q. Dr. Santilli, you are apparently referring to research conducted for about half a century. Why did it take so long to achieve the principle of your new nuclear energies so clearly expressed by Figures 1 and 2 ?

A. Serious science has to be "quantitative" in the sense that events must be represented with equations whose validity must be established by experimental verifications and industrial applications. When addressing new physical problems, as it is the case for the studies here reported, new methods have to be worked out and verified. The new nuclear energies here considered are based on the physics dealing with the synthesis of new particles created by the total mutual penetration of their constituent (patent pending). Quantum mechanics cannot even formulate such a problem because it represents all particles as points that, as such, cannot be compressed one inside the other. Therefore, the quantitative formulation of the problem considered required the prior construction of new mathematics and physics achieving an invariant representation of the actual shape and density of particles. Since the late 1970's mathematical and physical methods for the quantitative treatment of the problem considered did not exist, they had to be constructed and that required time, lots of time by numerous scientists.

FIGURE 4: A picture of the equipment for the synthesis of neutrons from a commercially available hydrogen gas which is in production and sale by the U. S. Publicly traded company Thunder Energies Corporation (TEC). It is given by a Directional Neutron Source (DNS) producing a flux of neutrons in a preferred direction with controllable energy and counts. The same equipment appears to be particularly suited to detect nuclear material that may be concealed in baggages, the detection and concentration of precious metals in mining operations, the scan of large welds in naval construction and other applications.

Q. Dr. Santilli, can you provide a concrete example of the synthesis you consider.

A. Yes. The fundamental synthesis existing in nature is Rutherford's synthesis of the neutron in the core of stars which is given by the "compression" of an electron within the hyperdense proton [6]. It took decades (see the latest experimental paper [7]) to construct new mathematical methods for the consistent formulation of Rutherford's synthesis of the neutron as illustrated in Figure 3 and numerous additional years to verify it, all this prior to the study of the problem considered. The synthesis of the pseudoproton is a consequence of Rutherford's synthesis of the neutron because it is merely given by the secondary compression of the electron, this time, within the hyperdense neutron (see Figure 6). Pseudodeuterons are synthesized via the compression of an electron pair within the deuteron structure (Figures 7 and 8).

Q. Dr. Santilli, please tell us the biggest difficulty you had to overcome in order to achieve the laboratory synthesis of the neutron.

A. The biggest difficulty I had to face has been Newton differential calculus because the differential of a variable r, dr, and the time derivative of that variable, dr/dt ,can only be defined at individual points in space and time, thus solely allowing the representation of particles as being point like. It is evident that a point-like electron cannot be "compressed" inside a point-like proton, thus preventing any quantitative treatment of the neutron synthesis. I initiated the representation of the extended character and density of particles in the late 1970's when I was at the Department of Mathematics of Harvard University. The representation was achieved via the generalization of the conventional product AB of arbitrary quantities A, B into the axiom-preserving, thus isotopic product ATB where the positive-definite 4x4-dimensional quantity T represents the dimensions and density of the particle considered (see monographs [2]). In 1993, while visiting the Joint Institute for Nuclear Research in Dubna, Russia, I was forced , for compatibility with the product ATB, to introduce new numbers n' = nU with an arbitrary positive-definite unit U = 1/T [8], today known as Santilli isonumbers [5]. Despite the generalization of all aspects of applied mathematics in terms of the isoproduct ATB and its formulation over isonumbers n'=nU, the formalism remained physically insufficient because it was unable to provide a representation of the shape and density of particles which is invariant over time. Consequently, out of sheer desperation in seeing decades of works not passing the test of time, I had no choice than that of reinspecting Newton's differential calculus to see whether it is indeed the most general form of calculus as assumed to be for the past four centuries. This re-inspection was necessary due to the evident incompatibility between the representation of extended particles via all products ATB and isonumbers n'=nU, U = 1/T > 0, and the strictly local character of Newton's differential dr and derivative dr/dt that can only be defined at an isolated point r in space and t in time. This critical examination soon revealed that Newton's calculus admits a covering formulation whenever the multiplicative unit U depends on the differentiation variable r. This generalization is characterized by the isodifferential d'r' = Td(rU) = dr + rTdU and the isoderivative d'r'/d't' = Udr'/dt' first introduced in Ref. [9] of 1996 and today called Santilli isodifferential.. This completed the construction of the needed new mathematics, today known as isomathematics (see Section 2 of Ref. [4] for a recent review). The application of the novel isomathematics for a corresponding generalization of quantum mechanics into hadronic mechanics was consequential [3], although the verification of the new mathematical and physical formalism in various fields required several additional years [10].

FIGURE 5: The biggest difficulty that Dr. Santilli had to overcome to achieve the synthesis of the neutron and other particles has been Newton's differential calculus due to its sole characterization of particles as being point like. This limitation stimulated the discovery of a broadening of Newton's differential calculus into a form defined on "volumes" rather than points, today known as "Santilli isodifferential calculus." The transition from Newton's to Santilli's differential calculus is illustrated in this picture via birds flying in formation who, to avoid wing interferences, fly with the awareness of their "volume" occupied by their body, rather than their weight concentrated in their center of mass.

Q. Dr. Santilli, please outline the equipment you have developed at Thunder Energies Corporation to synthesize neutrons and pseudoprotons from the hydrogen.

A. Thunder Energies Corporation is in production and sale of the novel Directional Neutron Source (DNS) essentially consisting in a remotely monitored and operated reactor synthesizing neutron from a commercially available hydrogen gas with the desired neutron directionality, energy and flux (see Figure 4). The central part of the reactor consists of a special form of high voltage and high energy, rapid DC discharge between electrodes submerged in the hydrogen gas which discharge has been shown to be capable of "compressing" electrons within the hyperdense proton (see the recent experimental paper [7] and large prior literature quoted therein). The recently published paper [1] has established that the same reactor also filled up with hydrogen gas does indeed synthesize pseudoprotons. The synthesis of the pseudodeuteron is expected to be produced by the same reactor when filled up with deuterium gas [1].

Q. Please let us have some example of clean nuclear energies produced by pseudoproton irradiation of light stable and natural elements.

A. Ref. [1] shows that the pseudoproton irradiation of Si-28 yields the stable isotope Al-29 with the release of 8.337 M eV; the same irradiation of C-40 yields the stable isotope K-41 with the release of 8.383 M eV; and the same irradiation of Fe-54 yields the stable isotope Mn-55 with the release of 8.347 M eV. It should be noted that the released energies are about 6.7 times the energy needed for the synthesis of the pseudoprotons, thus offering serious grounds for a positive total energy output. Finally, it should be noted that none of the indicated nuclear transmutation emits neutrons or other harmful radiations and release no radioactive waste.

Q. Is it possible to produce a beam of pseudoprotons suitable for industrial irradiation of natural elements?

A. Yes, this is possible quite easily, via technologies fully established at particle physics laboratories since the pseudoprotons are charged, thus admitting separation via Coulomb polarization, and two thousand times heavier than the electrons, thus admitting centrifugal and other separations. Consequently, the hydrogen plasma released by the rapid DC discharge can be easily separated via available technologies into distinct beams consisting of neutrons, pseudoprotons and electrons all usable for various irradiations.

FIGURE 6: This figure provides an illustration of the first synthesis of a negatively charged strongly interacting particle in scientific history, "Santilli pseudoproton" [1] which is essentially given by Rutherford's "compression" of an electron, this time, within the hyperdense neutron. The synthesis is achieved in the same DNS of Figure 4, although with a statistical probability lower than that off the synthesis of the neutron. Santilli pseudoproton has produced energy releasing nuclear transmutations without harmful radiation or waste, which transmutations have been verified by two U. S. spectroscopic laboratories [1].

Q. Dr. Santilli, the particles synthesized at CERN, FERMILAB and other physics laboratories have extremely short mean lives of the order of 10-30 seconds or less. The particles you produce are unstable like those produced at particle physics laboratories. What are the grounds for your statement that the particles you produce have a mean lives sufficiently long for use in industrial applications?>

A. The neutron has a mean life of fifteen "minutes" when isolated and becomes stable when it is a member of the nucleus of a stable natural element. It is easy to prove that pseudoprotons and pseudodeuterons have mean lives at least of the order of seconds, thus being fully adequate for irradiations and other industrial applications. It should be stressed that the appraisal of these mean lives via quantum mechanics would be nonscientific nonsense because we are dealing with conditions outside the capability of quantum mechanics, such as the total compression of electrons within hyperdense protons and neutrons requiring basically new mathematics, physics and chemistry. I have no words to emphasize the dramatic difference between the particles synthesized at physics laboratories, which consists of isolated point-particles in vacuum, and the particles we synthesize, consisting of the "compression" of their constituents one inside the other. This dramatic difference in structure also implies a dramatic difference in the meanlives.

FIGURE 7: Following studies conducted for about one century, quantum mechanics has been unable to achieve an exact representation of "all" characteristics of the simplest nucleus, the deuteron. We then have embarrassing deviations for heavier nuclei between the predictions of quantum mechanics and the experimental data for nuclear magnetic moments, nuclear spins, nuclear energy levels, the stability of the neutrons, and other insufficiencies. Most unreassuring is the case of the spin of the deuteron. According to the very axioms of quantum mechanics, the sole possible stable bound state between a proton and a neutron is the singlet state with null total angular momentum. But the deuteron has spin 1. Therefore, for the specific intent of maintaining quantum mechanics for conditions it was not intended for, the spin 1 of the deuteron is represented via a collection of "orbital states: that, however, have no connection with the experimental reality according to which the spin 1 is measured for the deuteron: ground state." Thanks to the representation of protons and neutrons as extended, thus deformable and hyperdense particles, hadronic mechanics has achieved a numerically exact and time invariant representation of "all" characteristics of the deuteron as the "three-body" bound state depicted in this figure of two protons and one exchanged electron acting like a gluon in generalized states caused by their mutual penetrations known as isoprotons and isoelectrons [11,12].

FIGURE 8: The understanding of the synthesis of the negatively charged deuteron called "Santilli pseudodeuteron" [1] requires the dismissal of at least some of the beliefs of 20th century chemistry [13]. It is generally believed that a hydrogen (or deuterium) gas can be ionized into protons (deuterons) and electrons with a submerged DC arc with a few kV and a few mJs. It is easy to prove that such a belief violates the principle of conservation of the energy because the indicated arc cannot deliver the energy needed for the molecular separation of the hydrogen (deuterium) molecule, which is of 110 kcal/mole. In reality, a submerged electric arc ionizes a hydrogen (deuterium) gas into protons (deuterons) and valence electron pairs in singlet couplings known as "Santilli-Shillady isoelectronia" [13-15] plus individual electrons in numbers depending on the voltage and energy of the arc. Once isoelectronia are admitted in the ionization of a deuterium gas, the synthesis of the pseudodeuteron becomes within technological reach because, having double elementary charge, isoelectronia are "strongly attracted" by deuterons and having null spin, they can be "compressed" inside deuterons with the DNS equipment of Figure 4 in a way simpler than the compression of one electron inside the proton for the synthesis of the neutron, resulting in the negatively charged deuteron depicted in this figure. (see Ref. [1] for details).

Q. Please outline the synthesis of the pseudodeuteron you expect from the TEC-DNS when filled up with deuterium gas.

A. The answer requires the addressing of at least one of the several beliefs existing in 20th century chemistry [113, in particular, the belief that a DC arc with a few kilovolts and a few microjoules ionizes a hydrogen gas into protons and electrons. Simple calculations show that such a belief violates the principle of conservation of the energy because the indicated weak arc does not have the energy sufficient to really break the rather strong valence bond of the hydrogen molecules, which is known to be 110 kcal/mole. This binding energy is stored in the two valence electrons in singlet coupling known as the Santilli-Shillady isoelectronia [13-15], with no appreciable contribution from the two far away protons. Hence, the ionization of a hydrogen gas generally produces protons and isoelectronia, plus isolated electrons in number dependent from the voltage and energy of the arc. Next our synthesis of the pseudodeuteron requires a knowledge of the first and only known representation of all characteristics of the deuteron in their ground state as a generalized bound state of two protons and one electron in conditions of partial mutual penetration thus acquiring generalized states known as isoproton and isoelectrons [1-12]. Having a double elementary charge, isoelectronia are attracted by deuterons with an extremely strong Coulomb force and having null total angular momenta, they can be "compressed" inside deuteron in a way much easier than Rutherford's compression of one single electron inside the proton.

Q. What is the significance of pseudodeuteron?

A. Pseudodeuterons allow, for the first time in history, a basically novel approach for the industrial reproduction of the synthesis of the helium occurring in the core of stars immediately following that of the deuteron, but it occurs under such extreme pressures and temperatures to prevent its industrial realization on Earth under current sciences and technologies. By contrast, pseudodeuterons are attracted by deuterons with an extremely big Coulomb force evidently replacing the extreme pressures in the core of stars. The fusion of a pseudodeuteron and a deuteron becomes unavoidable at contact due to the activation of the strongly attractive nuclear force. This fusion yields the helium plus a large thermal energy without the emission of neutrons or other harmful radiations and without the release of radioactive waste (see Ref. [1] for technical aspects). At Thunder Energies Corporation we are looking for nuclear physicists who are interested in "research," that is, the pursuit of new knowledge. We are also looking for philanthropists and investors interested in basic contributions to our human society.

FIGURE 9: As it is well known, the third synthesis in the core of stars, following those of the neutron and the deuteron, is the synthesis of the helium from two deuterons with the release of a such energy to allow stars to initiate the production of light. The inability for achieving to date the controlled fusion of two deuterons into the helium is a clear indication of basic insufficiencies in 20th century nuclear (clearly illustrated in Figure 1) physics with particular reference to (insufficiencies in the structure models of nuclei to be fused. Following the achievement of his new hadronic mathematics, physics and chemistry, and their verifications in various fields [10], Dr. Santilli first introduced basically new structure models for the neutron (Figure 3), the deuteron (Figure 7) and the helium (this figure) [11,12], which models representing "all" characteristics of the states considered. The study of nuclear fusions was initiated only thereafter. The ultimate aim of these fifty years of efforts is to attempt, in due time and under proper funding, a basically new controlled fusion of the helium, this time, from a deuteron and a pseudodeuteron which can be attempted via the irradiation of a deuterium gas with a beam of pseudodeuterons separated from the DNS of Figure 4. Being negatively charged, pseudodeuterons are strongly attracted by deuteron, thus readily achieving the contact conditions activating the strong nuclear forces under which fusion is unavoidable. An additional advantage is that the indicated opposite charges naturally created the singlet couplings necessary for the helium structure (ill-suited in this figure), thus avoiding an additional serious limitation of 20th century research in nuclear fusions. Under these assumption a pseudodeuteron and a deuteron would yield the helium plus an electron with the release of large thermal energy without the emission of harmful radiations and without the release of radioactive waste.


Q. Dr. Santilli, what is the reaction of the academic community toward your research?

A. The reaction by my former colleagues at Harvard and MIT is that of total silence since they have not yet acquired the technical knowledge of the new mathematics physics and chemistry necessary for any meaningful comments. However, there is an increasing number of academic physicists who are contributing to the various aspects of the new sciences. All our efforts are aimed at the development of new industrial applications under private funds. Consequently, I am particularly receptive to critical comments expressed in respectful language since criticisms have been established in history as essential for any due scientific process.

Q. Dr. Santilli, what is the difference between the antiprotons produced at CERN and your pseudoprotons?

A. The experimental confirmation of the existence of pseudoproton establishes that the sole use of a negative elementary charge is not sufficient to establish the antimatter character of a particle. This occurrence applies in particular to the particles claimed to be antiprotons also in view of a number of unresolved issues, such as the fact that matter and antimatter annihilate into light, while protons and the particles claimed to be antiprotons do not, as established by the Bose-Einstein correlation and other evidence. Therefore, particle physics laboratories should conduct a series of additional test establishing the antimatter character of their antiprotons as a necessary condition to issue statements that will resist the test of time. These aspects are discussed in detail in the debate Antiprotons or Pseudoprotons?


[1] R. M. Santilli, "Apparent Experimental Confirmation of Pseudoprotons and their Application to New Clean Nuclear Energies," International Journal of Applied Physics and Mathematics Volume 9, Number 2, April 2019

[2] R. M. Santilli, Foundation of Theoretical Mechanics, Volumes I (1978) and Volume II (1981), Springer Verlag, Germany,

[3] R. M. Santilli, Elements of Hadronic Mechanics, Volumes I and II ( 1995), Academy of Sciences, Kiev.

[4] R. M. Santilli, ``An introduction to new sciences for a new era."Invited paper, SIPS 2016, Hainan Island, China, Clifford Analysis, Clifford Algebras and their Applications . 6, No. 1, pp. 1-119, 2017

[5] I. Gandzha and J Kadeisvili, New Sciences for a New Era: Mathematical, Physical and Chemical Discoveries of Ruggero Maria Santilli, Sankata Printing Press, Nepal (2011).

[6] H. Rutherford Proc. Roy. Soc. A {\bf 97}, 374 (1920).

[7] Richard Norman, Anil A. Bhalekar, Simone Beghella Bartoli, Brian Buckley, Jeremy Dunning-Davies, Jan Rak, Ruggero M. Santilli "Experimental Confirmation of the Synthesis of Neutrons and Neutroids from a Hydrogen Gas, American Journal of Modern Physics, Vol. 6(4-1), page 85-104 (2017)
Two minute minute movie on the operation of the neutron source ;
neutron counts per Seconds detected by the Ludlum detector model 375
confirmation of such detection by the Berkeley Nucleonics SAM 940
confirmation of neutron detectors by the Polimaster PM170

[8] R. M. Santilli, ``Isonumbers and Genonumbers of Dimensions 1, 2, 4, 8, their Isoduals and Pseudoduals, and ``Hidden Numbers" of Dimension 3, 5, 6, 7," Algebras, Groups and Geometries Vol. 10, 273 (1993).

[9] R. M. Santilli, ``Nonlocal-Integral Isotopies of Differential Calculus, Mechanics and Geometries," in Isotopies of Contemporary Mathematical Structures," Rendiconti Circolo Matematico Palermo, Suppl. Vol. 42, 7-82 (1996),

[10] R. M. Santilli, Hadronic Mathematics, Mechanics and Chemistry, Volumes I to V, International Academic Press, (2008).

[11] R. M. Santilli, "Relativistic hadronic mechanics: nonunitary, axiom-preserving completion of relativistic quantum mechanics," Found. Phys. Vol. 27, 625-729 (1997)

[12] R. M. Santilli, The Physics of New Clean Energies and Fuels According to Hadronic Mechanics, Special volume of the Journal of New Energy, 318 pages (1998).

[13] R. M. Santilli, Foundations of Hadronic Chemistry, with Applications to New Clean Energies and Fuels, Kluwer Academic Publishers (2001),\
Russian translation by A. K. Aringazin

[14] R. M. Santilli and D. D. Shillady, ``A new isochemical model of the hydrogen molecule," Intern. J. Hydrogen Energy Vol. 24, pages 943-956 (1999)

[15] R. M. Santilli and D. D. Shillady, ``A new isochemical model of the water molecule," Intern. J. Hydrogen Energy Vol. 25, 173-183 (2000)\\